Hey Tommy, I was on the witch page and saw your comments on how the whole vampire/siphoner hybrid thing was a plothole because of vampires being abominations, which in turn would prevent them from retaining their connection to Nature.
Now, this may be true of normal witches because of their ability to channel from other sources, more specifically, their ability to channel and/or retain their link to Nature.
However, the same cannot be said for siphoners because they were born with the inability to generate magic and/or connect with Nature.
So, while normal witches have this ability to channel and 'feel' Nature, siphoners only have the ability to absord magic in any of its forms, not channel it (which is required to have a link to Nature).
That would explain why this loophole of Nature would allow siphoners to retain their ability to use magic even as hybrids, because technially, they never had a connection to Nature in the first place and therefore aren't limited by the established law about vampires being unable to practice magic.
And secondly, I saw your comments on how vampire/siphoner hybrids shouldn't be able to draw unlimited magic from thier vampire aspect.
But just think about it for a moment, if you were a vampire/siphoner hybrid with vampire blood in your system and you used your absorbing ability to take magic from your blood, wouldn't you then conclude that absorbing the magic from your vampire blood would turn it into human blood and then your vampire body would convert that human blood back into vampire blood to restart the endless cycle of you siphoning magic from youself?
Now, you might say the magic which flows through a vampire's body and the magic which flows through their blood are one in the same, which they kind of are, but remember, vampires get their magic from the sun and their sireline, meaning they indirectly share the power the Originals get from the White Oak Tree.
So, we know siphoners cannot connect to Nature, so we would have to conclude they still cannot connect to Nature as a hybrid. Meaning they cannot absorb from the aspects of their vampirism which are bound to sources of Nature which they can't (the sun) or aren't (white oak) touching.
So, not only would a vampire/siphoner hybrid have the inherent disadvantage of not being able to connect to Nature from a siphoner's standpoint, but he would also not be able to connect to Nature and/or anything directly connected to Nature from a vampire/witch/Nature's Law standpoint.
But, we know a siphoner can absorb magic from any raw source with touch, so while they wouldn't be able to connect to Nature from a normal witch's standpoint, they would be able to retain their magic from a siphoner's standpoint (they have a raw form of magic flowing though them -- vampire blood).
So, this my long reason why the whole vampire/siphoner, siphoning from themselves, Nature's loophole thing is not a plothole at all, but just an exception and addition to an already established mythology.
No I didn't necessarily say that, I actually said nature or a witch spell is allowing them to be witch and vampire.
My problem is these comments from the characters like damon who say they can siphon from themselves, that makes no sense because that would mean they'd suck out their own vampirism leaving them the way they died as mortals.
Also it don't matter if they don't directly connect to nature, the vampire curse still used earth magic so it's just part of it.
Also I don't get your other theories, it's confusing.
All I'm saying is Normal Witches can channel things (like Nature), while Siphoners can only absorb raw forms of magic (magic already in things).
1. Well, we know Nature doesn't allow Vampire/Normal Witch hybrids and we know that Kai was born with the ability to absorb, so that takes Nature and/or a Witch Spell off the table.
2. Even if Siphoners could draw from Nature, which they can't, they would never be able to suck out their own vampirim because it draws power from the sun which can't run out and from the White Oak Tree which is an immortal object. So, the only other thing is vampire blood. And when vampire blood is removed of magic, it turns back into human blood and then the vampire body turns that back into more vampire blood to repeat the cycle indefinitely.
3. I know, but that's why Siphoners can't draw from those aspects (the Sun and the White Oak Tree) because it stems from Nature. That's why I said Siphoners have always been unconnected to Nature, explaining why they can still absord magic and use it, even while being a vampire. Siphoners were never able to channel Nature in the first place, so none of Nature's laws were broken which would warrant a balance being needed. That's why Siphoners are considered loopholes because they break no rules and therefore nothing is done.
4. I just meant that Siphoners would have to literally touch the sun or a piece of white oak with their hands in order to siphon magic from those sources.
well there is only 2 magics:earth magic and dark magic so that is all that can be channeled or absorbed from any witch
1.But kai and the others being born with that ability is proof of nature creating it since birth is a natural act, or maybe it was a witch spell like dahlia did to create esthers kids.
2.The thing with that is, the sun and white oak tree are infused within the blood making it vampire blood, it's not 3 entirely seperate objects. Also if the magic were to be removed, they'd be either dead or mortals again.
3.I'm not sure they can channel from the earth but they can steal the magic of witches who do channel from the earth or magical objects that are made from the earth like the devils star some magic stone.
4.Also they couldn't siphon magic from those cause the sun and the white oak tree aren't magical objects. They are natural objects. They can be channeled for power but there is no magic to steal from them. Do you get what I mean?
I'm trying to explain what makes a Witch different than a Siphoner. Siphoners can only absorb, while Witches can absorb (from objects they hid their magic away in, but other then that, Normal Witches cannot absorb anything) and channel from Nature.
1. Maybe I read your comment wrong, but you're right, Nature does allow Siphoners to exist.
2. Even if it was infused in the vampire blood, the vampire body itself is what gets a continuous supply of magic from the Sun and the White Oak Tree (imagine if you drained a vampire, it wouldn't ceast to be a vampire just because there'd be no vampire blood in them), so this tells you that removing the magic from the blood does not take their immortality away or cure them. And in the case of vampire/siphoner hybrids, the blood would turn into human blood once Kai absorbed it and then his vampire body would turn that human blood back into vampire blood.
3. I thought of the same thing while writing this, and to answer that, Siphoners can absord magic from Nature if another person/thing has it inside of them/it already, but they can't channel Nature themselves or absorb magic inside of themselves that stems from Nature. Do you get what I mean by this? From others who channel Nature and have magic in them is fine, but directly from Nature or from Nature connected magic inside of himself isn't possible.
4. I understand what you mean and agreee completely (don't know why I put that). Well anyways, I was just trying to express that if Siphoners can't touch something and absorb magic from it that way, then they can't get magic any other way.
The difference is siphoners magic only lasts a while, while a regular witches magic can last as long as they want. Also witches can channel the earth to create fire, water, etc. so it's not just magical objects. But I think you're mistaken, normal witches can absorb magic from anything magical thing and channel nature.
1.Well for now it's nature but like I said on a comment recently, I wouldn't be suprised if heretics were a result of a witch spell and that witch who cursed them will be the season 8 big bad.
2. I see what you're saying but by siphoning off their own magic, it remove all the magic of vampirism, not just their blood and really even if it did locate specific parts, I don't see how that is some big achievement considering it be just a loophole. They'd be more inclined to siphon off the magical items and creatures.
3. I get what you mean but let me make this easier to understand, they don't have magic to begin with, they only have one ability-siphoning, and also, it only becomes magic once it's infused within the witch, so for example, a siphoner can't absorb magic from fire since fire isn't magical but if a witch were to channel the fire or absorb it into them, the siphoner could steal that fire from them because its inside a witch. The only time it appeared a siphoner absorbed magic from within the earth is when kai absorbed the travellers spell and that was magic, not the actual earth.
4. They can siphon magic from magical creatures and magical objects, that is it, nature won't work cause it's not magical, however they should be able to channel nature on their own if they completed the merge giving them permanent access to magic.
I haven't seen one example of a Normal Witch absorbing magic, other than them getting their magic back from an object they put it it.
1. I would like to think that it was a result of the whole Gemini Coven/Merge stuff.
2. Siphoning doesn't remove the magical connection which vampirism is tied to. It doesnt negate the spell which Esther cast. You could siphon as hard as you want, but the spell which was already cast to make vampires, still connects the sun and the white oak tree to them, thus refilling the magic of the vampire body as it is siphoned away. That anti-spirit magic barrier just did that because no spirit magic was allowed to penetrate the barrier, explaining why the vampires died. And with Liz, Kai was just removing the magic in her blood, so her tumor wouldn't grow anymore.
3. I was thinking that, but I was trying to hard to explain it. I always tend to complicate things.
4. Well, if they completed the merge and then became a vampire/siphoner hybrid, then thay would lose the part of their witch ability that came from the aspect of the normal witch's essence.
Well perhaps siphoners only have that power, BUT a normal witch in theory could channel(I'm just going to use a simpler word-clone) that power to siphon off magical things.
1.Maybe, but if that is the case, how come there were only 7 siphoners in existence and yet the gemini coven I believe were around for centuries according to liv. So that would mean not all merges result in a siphoner being born, so it's again either some witch cursed them or it's a genetic disorder.
2. Siphoning doesn't remove the magical connection which vampirism is tied to. It doesnt negate the spell which Esther cast. You could siphon as hard as you want, but the spell which was already cast to make vampires, still connects the sun and the white oak tree to them, thus refilling the magic of the vampire body as it is siphoned away. That anti-spirit magic barrier just did that because no spirit magic was allowed to penetrate the barrier, explaining why the vampires died. And with Liz, Kai was just removing the magic in her blood, so her tumor wouldn't grow anymore.-I don't quite understand what you mean
4.Was that confirmed or are you just speculating? Cause if kai used telekinesis while fighting bonnie while he was a heretic, then he can access earth magic because telekinesis is just a fancy term for wind manipulation.
1. That's what I meant. That the merge stuff led to a gene problem which made them have a mutated form of the witch gene, making it a genetic disorder as you say.
3. I'm trying to say that siphoning the magic from himself wouldn't undue the spell cast that makes Kai a vampire (Esther's spell which was used to make the Originals, which in turn still applies to vampires like Kai and other normal vampires).
4. Well, he can still influence Nature, without being able to channel from it.
So, when Kai siphons from his vampirism, the spell which makes a vampire a vampire replenishes the magic, which in turn, turns the vampire blood, which is now regular human blood, back into vampire blood to be used again and again indefinitely.
1.Well it's probably more likely to a rare genetic disorder since it doesn't happen to all gemini witches. Like the only way I'd imagine it being a result of a witch is if that witch could see the future and knew they were psychos and wanted them to be super psychos to wreak havoc on the gemini coven as revenge
3. Yeah but it's still from their bloodline, meaning it would have the same effect and again even if he can do that, it's pointless, it means nothing.
1. I agree, it's a rare genetic disorder, but I think it's limited to people in the Gemini Coven. I don't think this disorder would have occured if it hadn't been for the strange Gemini Leader linking and merging ritual. Now, that's not to say every member born into the coven has the disorder, but that every member who has children, that those children inherit the possiblity of being a siphoner. I also think siphoners already have the witch gene inside of them (a deviated from, obviously), if not to explain their ability to store maigc (albeit temporarily) in the first place.
3. I now understand vampirism consists of one aspect and not seperate aspects as I initially thought. So, do you agree that siphoners absorb magic from themselves, which stems from their vampire bloodline, which in turn, stems from the spell which draws from the sun and the white oak tree as sources of power?
4. Like for instance, siphoners can still use the 'incendia' spell to catch things on fire or the 'motus' spell to knock someone on their ass, without needing to draw power from Nature. I think once siphoners have a raw sorce of power to absorb from (in this case, their vampirism), that they can do what a normal witch can do (spell wise), with the exception of a normal witch's ability to channel things (like Nature) for power.
4. Well, we know normal witches are born with innate magic and a connection to Nature, but we know that siphoners are born without the ability to generate magic, which means that they are also born without a connection to Nature. Like you said, the siphoning ability has nothing to do with magic, only when siphoners absorb magic from raw sources can they finally use it. And just think about, if Kai could channel Nature, then after he absorbed magic from raw sources and then that magic started running out, then he could have just channeled Nature and refilled his magic, which wasn't the case. Kai could only channel Nature after his merge with Luke.
you misinterpreted what I said, the siphoning power is magic, it's just not permanent unless the siphoner wins the merge, and perhaps he can't channel nature but he can channel and absorb from other things
When you think about it though, everything in the universe is Nature. So, if you can't channel Nature then that means you can't channel anything at all. Even objects that have magic in them are still a part of Nature, those objects are made of elements (that's the whole reason why siphoners have to physically touch objects and absorb the magic within them in the first place because of their inability to tap into Nature). Also, the fact that Nature allows a vampire/siphoner hybrid to exist tells you that it doesn't break Nature's law about vampire abominations still having the ability to feel Nature and have access to its magical power.
And earlier in our conversation, you said that normal witches can absorb and channel, but we have only ever seen normal witches absorbing their own magic they placed in obects or in the case of Bonnie, when she claimed her ancestor's magic (Qetsiyah's blood from the island) in order to escape the 1994 Prison World. I think with normal witches, absorbing only works on magic related to themselves or their witch bloodline.
Well it makes you wonder why they even want her there[[Click to Continue > by PriceMinus| to begin]] with.
Man we need those freaking summaries now! But speaking of summaries, did you see the new heroes stuff that came out? Robbie kays character is named tommy which is badass seeing as how he played peter pan on OUAT.
theo, catelin, donovan, tracy, hayden, mr. stewart, van, swan, corey(he is the new gay character), lucas, katherine, gabe, josh, vadim, zach and patterson
it also says marin, braeden, lydias mom and liams dad is coming back and of course kate but chris isn't anywhere, nor is satomi, stiles dad, gerard and deucalion and not even peter but I am telling you man that big metal wolf monster is peter but he got mutated I think.
Well yeah that creature is the same one who punches through the wall and chokes parrish.
But I'm actually impressed at how teen wolf handles their character deaths, they don't kill off every freaking new character they bring in. The only characters I remember dying off is allison, matt, allisons mom, those two wolves that derek made-I can't remember their names and ethan.
but go on the season 3 originals page and I got into a debate, possibly ongoing, and some people still think that hope is better with the wolves and they use all these stupid reasons and I'm just like, klaus is more powerful than the wolves, what part do these people not understand? and even if she was with the wolves, danger would follow
I swear some of these fans find dumb reasons to hate on klaus and the mikaelsons sometimes
Ikr? The premeire is 4 days away, this is ridiculous. This is all i got from the wiki, "The Season 5 premiere opens on the eve of senior year: Scott and his pack deal with the arrival of a new enemy and the return of an old friend."
also I did some research cause I had forgotten but since aiden is the twin that died and the producer is confirming it's him, either my guess is he came back to life or it is an illusion possibly created by valack
What do you think about Supernatural having a crossover with The Originals, and let Dahlia go face to face with the Darkness? Then Dahlia wouldn't be so cocky or confident anymore, because she'd be helpless against something even more powerful than God. What do you picture the look on Dahlia's face to be like when she's facing the Darkness?
I forgot to tell u but the reason I haven't given out the info from the originals book 2 is from what people have told me it is non canon because of all the plot errors in it. So I'm not sure I am reading it or book 3.
And it's like what was the point of making these books if there will be plot holes.
You asked about the different species on the Ashes to Ashes page... I didn't want to reply there, because this is potentially spoilery.
Introduced later on in the series (or species that most characters previously thought were extinct or impossible):
Born Shadowhunter experiments
The series has been ongoing for quite a while now (8 years so far), so it's had a lot of time for world-building. It's a pretty good series, if you're interested. Only 9 novels (out of a planned 15) have been released so far. There are also 4 companion books, but I haven't actually read those... Anyway, I think that's everything :)
Fair Folk (or the ‘fey’) are malicious creatures who are a bit like faeries. Most look very similar to humans, except that they have slightly pointed ears and are much more beautiful than any ordinary person. Fair folk aren’t capable of ever telling a lie, but they’re good at finding loopholes. The fey are manipulative, vicious beings who like to trick or curse people they’ve lured into a trap. They often kidnap human children. Not all of the Fair Folk are inherently evil, but none are trustworthy.
The Shadowhunter experiments don't have a name, but I like to call them that. There are a few Shadowhunters in the series who begin to manifest some unusual powers. A man had a god complex and wanted to try to create a superior Shadowhunter race. He drugged his pregnant wife and forced her to take part in a series of inhuman experiments on their unborn baby. After it was born, the man continued his blood experiments on two new subjects but one of the pregnant women died and his wife fled. So these Shadowhunter 'experiments' are very rare. They’re physically superior to other Nephilim because they’re less human. Since none of the man’s techniques were exactly the same, each of these Shadowhunters have a unique ability. Physically, they appear stronger, more agile, faster, and more immune to injury. They have supernatural abilities that no other Shadowhunter has (or has heard of before), so I’d say that they’re the most powerful species variety.
The Endarkened are corrupted Shadowhunters who have tasted the blood of the Greater Demon Lilith (and something else). Ordinary Shadowhunters have a mixture of human and angel blood in their veins. The Endarkened burn out all trace of angel inheritance in their DNA and substitute it with traces of demon’s blood during a ritual. So they’re stronger, faster, and generally more powerful than other Nephilim (except for the 'experiments'). The Endarkened can't use Shadowhunter runes anymore.