What do you think about the hate that the female characters get on the originals? It has lead me to believe that not only the writers, but the fandom is sexist as well. They have amazingly huge standarts for them, when they don't match it, they deserve hate.
Hayley, Cami and Davina are the most hated characters on the show. Except for Hayley, who's personality got retconned, I don't see how the latter two deserve hate, especially Davina.
What has she done to deserve it? I mean, her character development is the most logical on the show. They hate her cause she is stupid, but over the course of the series, she has shown to be quite smart. She's volatile and immature, but that will change over time. Now, they hate her cause she's in love with Kol and protected him. Nobody hates Kol for liking her, but Davina deserves hate for craving for love and happines in her life. Smh...
I think much of the hate stems from bias feelings, insensitivity and nonsensical viewpoints. its as if these characters are supposed to kill off all their feelings and do what the fans believe they should do; in davinas case, she is supposed to accept the fact that tim is dead and ignore the distinct possibility that klaus could flip and bite marcel and josh again.
The majority of the fandom may or may not be made up of girls/women who love the hot guys and hate the women who get in the way of their ship. however, that hate is more facebook, twitter and youtube. the hate I see on here for these characters is different; giving the appearance that
this fandom is sexist; females are help to a higher standard for their actions.
People hate davina because she's in love with kol but before they hated her because she was about to whipe out an entire bloodline. bottom line, quite a few people hate davina for no reason at all, so they try to create a reason, resulting in their flawed logic and blatant disregard for her storyline and the overall details of her character. its like they're just lashing out in anger and annoyance, which they shouldn't because its only a show. negative criticism is ok; the entertainment buisness is dependant on criticism I.e. Rotten Tomatoes; critics. Angry and emotional post is basically a sign of obsession.
Well, I guess so. I have never seen a constructed post pointing out flaws in her charactarization. The only things I see on her page is upset fans complaining and ranting irrationally and ignoring her relationships with the characters.
I mean, some users are still upset over the fact that she attacked Elijah. Then they claim that she acts innocent and like a victim, but can't even bring up any examples. Which leads me to believe that they are asumming things to make their hatred more credible. But for smone like me who knows Davina's character to her core, it is frastruating, really.
And earlier, there was a guy claiming that Davina was overwritten in terms of power, but is a fan of the originals. Double standarts much?
They are probably watching a different series. Davina's the agressor, she's worse than Klaus! They are spinning the events of the show to make Davina look like the worst thing on earth and justify Klaus. Does the OP have collective IQ of 10? Almost all of the haters are huge fans of Klaus - so my point stands - she is hated because she is going up against Klaus and doesn't realize that she is a monster herself. Even though she was protecting her life when she teamed up with Marcel and her friends chose to side with Klaus, putting their own lives in dangers themselves. But no, let's blame it on Davina. She is not a monster, why should she act like she is one? But that wouldn't change anything regarding Klaus, so they are just grasping at straws here.
You're spot on. They actually hate her for no reason at all, then try to make up illogical reasons to make her look bad and justify Klaus.
Though I pay attention to other aspects of the shows, I pay more attention to the magical aspect of the show, the romance is unbearable and Elena is a less interesting character than Kathrine (i'm not into soaps; I prefer more action like the Originals lol), so i'm going to analyse only their magical aspects.
1. I like that she's the first witch to be shown in the universe(on screen).
2. I like that she comes from one of the most powerful bloodlines in witchcraft history and is descended from the most powerful witch to walk the earth.
3. Unlike regular witches she's gifted with a special power of intuition(by touch), just like the deveruex sisters, hence why she called herself psychic.
4. She has proven to be a mighty force to be reckoned with given that she was able to absorb, contain and control without stress the powers of 100 dead witches, Unlock the whole extent of her will using expression and live(something that only very powerful witches could accomplish) resurrect jeremy twice, and also herself.
5. With traditional magic she was a mistress of body-jumping spells, pyrokinesis, aneurisms and telekinesis( and other things I cannot remember now).
5. With expression she could do anything; countless feats like healing herself like a vampire, containing Klaus within an invissible force field of which he was absolutely useless to, Calcifying an immortal into stone, among so many other things.
6. She became a very powerful witch in a very short time while still being a teenager(17/18) as opposed to her very grown and powerful colleagues like Esther or Celeste or even Tessa who had so many years of experience under their belt.
1. She was not an average witch as she was gifted(like Monique, Agnes and Bonnie) with the special power to detect pregnancies in women(being born with a unique power automatically means the said witch is above average as they are more magical than a witch born with basic witch abilities by default).
2. Because she was an above average witch she was probably able to withstand receiving Esther's magic, thus becoming an elder that way.
3. As an Elder she was able fashion her own spells unlike other witches
1. I like that she's was presented as the very powerful witch but a teenager just like Bonnie.
2. I like that she was untouchable due to the powers of the other girls she had plus hers.
3. Using the harvest magic(3 dead witches powers) she was able to accomplish many feats and even rubbishly disarms two originals, predicts accurately locations where magic was being used and by whom and she was also precognitive, she took down even Celeste(who was a very powerful witch in her own right) and four or five others at the same time, undid an originals compulsion, cause mini earthquakes, among other things she'd done.
4. After the reaping she probably became more powerful than before the harvest, and was able to (using Ancestral Magic) resurect an original (though tapping from dark objects and the comet), control him(using a dark object), was still a very skilled telekinetic and erased the memories of an original, was able to intercept the white oak stake(while chanelling another witch) among other things I cannot remember.
So far these are what I think magically about these powerful witches. Bonnie(irregardless of what her fans say), comes at the top; based on what she has done and been able to handle. She's also described as an extremely powerful witch. Sophie being an elder charts herself on top most witches but is no match for the powers of Harvest Davina or Expression/100 witches' powers Bonnie.
Hey Izuna.So,I've never actually spoken to anyone trough these chats on their pages before until now.Anyways,I was always curious about your general opinion on the Sophie character from TO.If you disliked or liked her,and why?And I'm also curious about your opinion on Bonnie,ignoring her fans and their attitude.As well as Davina.And yes,I know they're all the main witches,but trust me,it has nothing to do with the fact that they're witches.
So,since I always wanted to ask you but found it a little dumb to ask on a random page,I'll ask you here.(I would have asked you earlier but I never actually knew it was possible to chat with a user of the wiki on their profile,so :P)
I wouldn't call it dumb to ask on a random page (although asking on episode pages would be better since they're more populated) as I see users getting called out by name fairly often. I guess the only thing bad about calling someone out on a page other than their profile would be to provoke them. Anyway, I'll get right to it.
Bonnie- Inspite of that little "war" I had on the Bonnie page, she has actually been one of my all time favorite characters on TVD's. Some people are sick and tired of her sacrifices, but at least her character is consistent. She grows as a character but at the same time retains the unique aspects of her personality. To me, TVD's has become a bit of a joke and I haven't been watching it since it's premire, but I still hope she finds a way to come back. Awhile ago, I said I couldn't stand Bonnie because of her fans. What I meant about that (and I should've been more specific to begin with) was I couldn't stomach the idea that Bonnie has a, what I like to call, "special snowflake bloodline" and how Bennetts are more powerful than other witch families, ect.
Sophie- I started out liking Sophie, I didn't exactly love her, but I had nothing against her either. However, when I found out she wanted to slit the throat of a sixteen year old girl, I had the same viewpoint as Marcel and Davina, ergo, I didn't belive the reaping part of the harvest would work and it was all a lie. Sophie was basically flipping a coin out of desperation, leaving the life of a girl up to chance. Although after a few episodes, I came to the realization that Sophie was doing what she thought was right and truly believed Davina would come back anyways and it had nothing to do with any grudge towards her. Plus Davina was going to die anyway from the harvest magic. Unfortunately, my liking of Sophie was short lived thanks to Monique. That was the cruelest irony; to work so hard to revive you niece after promising your now deceased sister, only to be killed by that very person.
Davina- Davina's been one of my favorites since the beginning, so naturally, I'm a bit more focused on her storyline and character, which is why I feel I have a clear-cut understanding of her current mindset and motives. A part of me agrees with her recurring haters on her page regarding her revenge against Klaus, but I've made my case explaining why she is not delusional or in over her head. For a 16 (17?) year old witch who is going against two original vampires as well as attempting to keep "The destroyer" aka Mikael, under control, she's actually doing a lot better then I expected. The only thing I hate about her character is that she's been portrayed as a weak child. She's 17, old enough to drive a car and yet she behaves like she's never suffered an injury worse than a rolled ankle.
Just wanted to leave a nice note here since I have not been around a lot. As my name suggests, I am an Elijah fan! haha Would love to here your thoughts on this season of TO and see where we agree and disagree. Always welcome healthy chatter.
(I also saw your comment from a few hours back on Red Door and wanted to talk here if it gets lost)
I agree that I am starting to dislike Cami more and more. To be honest, this episode we see how hurt Mikael is and I cannot help but really feel for him. I think it is silly of the writers to have Cami be, "Klaus you are redeemable" but to Mikael, "Oh we've only interacted this ONCE so nope." I get the feeling that the writers are desperately trying to keep Mikael this big, unredeemable monster. But like I said, this episode really had me connect to Mikael in a way that I don't thing the writers were expecting. I do not see Klaus as our hero, nor Elijah or anyone else on the show. EVERYONE has done things that make them not seem as sparkly as we want them to be.
Don't get me started on Elijah... >_> Love Lijah but I can honestly say at times, he just needs to get the stick that is lodged out of his ***.
Back on track though, to the points you made that Mikael expresses. He blames Klaus for the death of his youngest child. And I can agree that Klaus was a dumb Sh** for taking Henrick to watch the wolves. In Mikael's eyes he was making his family strong by being as hard as he was on them. "Mothers love their children. Fathers make them strong." In his own way, he thought that he was helping his children. As for killing Esther, Klaus killed Esther. Mikael has every right to feel how he feels about that.
Now people don't get me wrong, Papa Original beating Klaus is wrong. I admit that. I do not condone those kinds of actions in the real world at all. That being said, Mikael wanted Klaus to be the warrior he would be proud of. ALSO...Klaus is not Mikael's son. Mikael only will ever see him as the bastard and will want to make him suffer for what he see's as ripping his family from him, his true blood.
Klaus is in the end as worse a monster as Mikael in my opinion. SO is Elijah, Kol, Rebekah, Esther and Finn. All of the Original family have done monsterous things. To the point, so have characters in TVD and TO across the board. These shows are not about straight good and evil. It's about family, no matter how dysfunctional they are and act.
And to before I close out to the point Felicity made, yes Cami is very obsessed with Klaus. So...until that goes away or is simmered down, I will openly say that her character to me is pointless.
(My long winded way of saying I agree with you and that people should not jump to conclusions at all.)
That colossal second post is basically all I have to say regarding Mikael, Klaus and Cami, lol.
As for the first post; my thoughts on season 2 so far? I'm not too good with general descriptions, so I'm going to head into a detailed description regarding my thoughts on each character, mostly the mains.
Klaus- It's become quite apparent to me that he sincerely wants to redeem himself. The main problem with him is, he's stuck in his old ways still i.e. proclaiming Hayley as queen of the werewolves, essentially forcing them to serve her. Implying he will kill Davina if Cami does not help him. However, he has also taken some pretty big steps i.e. pardoning Davina, listening to Cami about Mikael, emulating Elijah "You have my word". Overall, I think the stroyline is leaning towards Klaus and Elijah switching positions, in a sense.
Elijah- I'm not even going to address the whole "Elijah is insane" topic because that speaks for itself. Elijah can actually be the perfect leader if Klaus and Hayley were out of the picture. He said the exact same thing Mikael said "always be on your gaurd" and unlike Mikael, he's probably more patient and well, not consumed with rage. Hayley is just bad for Elijah....nuff said.
Hayley- Aside from her *clears throat* impertinent speeches aka her "sass" as Elijah put it, I actually don't mind her this season. She's not nearly taking as far of a backseat as Marcel, but she's not exactly center stage, which is what I feared. She wants to not only gain control of the wolves, but become their leader in addition to exacting revenge on Esther for trying to kill her child. Pretty simple; straight forward storyline for a main character.
Marcel- Not much to say, lol. I'm not really feeling Marcel this season. He's not someone to root for anymore, he's just.....there! His main storyline so far is based off of nostalgia; once again trying to take back or gain back something he once possessed in the past.
Cami- Again, not much to say, as she hasn't appeared much, which is understandable since we're only 5 episodes in, but regarding my disliking of her, you already know. When she said "I regret convincing you not to kill that bastard" (something along those lines) is what broke the camel's back. I was under the impression that Cami's character was suppossed to symbolize a being that could hear everyone's side and keep an opened mind. Apparently, she's only being a saint because of her feelings towards Klaus. Mikael's reason for hating Klaus makes perfect sense to me. I don't excuse him beating Klaus and Klaus exclusively, but what he said to Cami? Yes. Mikael may despise Klaus, but he's not delusional.
And finally we come to Davina- If she cannot sever the entire bloodline (not just Marcel and Josh) then there's nothing to fear. I think she will eventually give up on trying to kill Klaus but she will not give up on getting even with him. I saw in the most recent spoiler from the latest summary release that she will tap into dark magic. I kind of saw this coming; Davina getting dark.....er. I don't exactly like it, but I see her becoming the "rouge" of the show. She may garner a few allies here and there but ultimately, she has her own ambitions that don't include her allies.
So, I wanted to come here so our comments aren't taking over Bonnie's comment page.
Firstly, I don't know you, so don't think... that I think you're a villian. I don't dislike you. I agree with Bonnie being labeled a 'powerful witch.' I don't know, nor do I care who started the argument.
I saw your comments from days ago, basically arguing with other people on Bonnie's page. It seemed to come out of nowhere, but i guess someone posted something negative about Davina on Davina's comment section... so you were retaliating. I ignored your comments, because I usually ignore negativity. But once you kept stating "Bonnie fans" this & that, I felt like it was aimed at all Bonnie fans & I was tired of seeing that. And there had already been several stirring comments from some of the Caroline fandom.
Surely, I don't condone people stirring on character pages. Going by your comments, it APPEARED thats what you were doing. Even though you were speaking logically on the topic of 'powerfulness,' you managed to add that insult aimed toward who? Bonnie fans! And that looks like stirring. So, some Bonnie fans are going to feel like you are being nasty & disagree with your entire post, especially when you compare Bonnie & Davina.
So, my point is, when you are trying to fix or resolve an issue on any topic, say what NEEDS to be said & leave the rest. You can't try to resolve an issue & insult people at the same time. That's why I said you were being hypocritical. I apologize for mistaking your comment.
I have said what I have to say & I hope you understand.
I agree, I should say what needs to be said. There was actually a 4 month time gap between my departure from this wiki and my return and I actually started out posting my own thoughts and saying what I felt needed to be said. As the episodes kept coming, the more intense the wiki became and as a result, I was more prone to inserting more passion into my comments.
The Bonnie page is not exclusive to Bonnie fans only, but I am now aware that 70-80% of the people that visit character pages are fans of the character. I sort of treated it more like I would an episode page, which tends to be more populated and more 50/50 in terms of positivity and negativity. Now that I know and now that the....let's just call it a "war" between myself and Bonnie fans has toned down considerably, I'll make an effort to tone down the sarcasim and indirect insults. I'm a huge fan of dark humor, ergo, I'm prone to be more insensitive regarding the words I use. Not just on the wiki, but even in real life.
And finally, yes, most Christians do tend to be judgemental, lol. Jesus himself said "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." In other words, before you judge, take a long look in the mirror; a blind man cannot lead another blind man.
Nice to hear from you :) and yeah, I've still been a little busy. My town is quite the tourist attraction during the summer and some of them are still lingering around. Since October is right around the corner, I should have a substatial amount of free time.
How was your summer btw?
Mine was basically non-stop. wake up, drink coffee, listen to music/workout, go to work, go to the bar with a group, fall asleep. Then wake up and repeat the cycle.
I'm glad to hear that :) it's always a good idea to chat with the others and I ^^
Your summer routine sounds just like what I would do on the weekends except replace the bar with parties/dates haha. Well, during the summer I traveled to several boring states to visit family. For the most part, I would wake up late, cook, go jogging/listen to music, go shopping, occasionally visited fun attraction sites, and then sleep late. I also learned how to drive over the summer. Nowadays, I've been quite busy due to college and work, but I usually join the new chat I linked for you above during the weekends or on Monday nights. I'll try to notify you when we're on.
Where have you been? I'm worried. I know you must be feeling blue, but I hope you will continue to watch TO. Maybe you will fall in love with another awesome character? *hugs* I hope you feel better. I will continue to go on the chat if you ever want to talk.
I was feeling blue :( but I'm still lurking about, just haven't had the time to go on chat. I'm still going to watch the originals of course.
I'm not giving up hope on Genevieve though. Unlike Monique and Abigail, I don't believe Genevieve is gone for good. I did at first because watching her die the way she did was quite tragic, but also when I put the pieces together, I strongly believe Genevieve pulled a Celeste and went into another body. Only Esther and Finn were brought back it seems and every other time a reaping witch died, a harvest girl came back, however, Cassie came back possessed which has led me to believe that Esther used Monique's and Abigail's harvest power to bring back herself and Finn. I'm not sure about the Kaleb/Kol theory, but I believe that the new character "Gia" is Genevieve.
I found it a little odd that in her place of power, she wasn't able to fight Hayley as well as she fought Klaus, Marcel and Rebekah. She also knew Esther was behind this and knew she was going to die one way or another. So, in an act of desperation, she tore a page out of her friend Celeste's handbook and also set Monique and Abigail up to fail.
Hmm.. on Gia's page, it states she's a human that will turn into a vampire. Also, her personality sounds completely different from Genevieve. So rather than Gia, I think Lenore might be Genevieve.
I am happy you still have hope but tbh, as a pessimist myself, I am going to accept that Genevieve is dead (for now). I don't know how I feel about Genevieve not being played by Elyse Levesque. I don't think I will like the idea of a new actress playing her since I already hate that Esther and Finn are in different bodies, played by different actors.
Too bad we have to wait until October to find out.
It was nice hearing back from you, Mr. Anon Exterminator :D
Well I just remembered how Esther possessed the body of a vampire (Rebekah) and when Alaric stabbed her, she came back. So I still think it's possible for Gen to take over Gia, turn herself into a vampire, join Marcel's group and plot to kill Esther for manipulating her.
As for Lenore, I believe that she will be Esther's second body since I can't see Cassie lasting many episodes.
Regardless, I don't think we've seen the last of her because to me, her storyline feels incomplete.
The reason I'm being so optimistic about this is because Genevieve has had a major impact on TO's universe, just like Klaus has/had a major impact on TVD's universe. She summoned Mikael with her spell the 1st time, causing TO's to flee, revealed the truth about Rebekah to Klaus which eventually caused Rebekah to flee, bound the moonlight rings to Klaus, caused Hayley to become a hybrid, which will result in her and Klaus growing closer and is the reason the baby is now out of the picture. Her actions have caused pain to Klaus, Elijah, Hayley, Rebekah, Marcel and to an extent, Cami.
Now looking at the facts, we have 3 witches who died and yet only 2 came back. We had Monique plot behind Gen's back, saying that she wished for her to fail so they can get Cassie back, but Esther/Cassie ended up returning. Genevieve didn't fight Hayley like she did Klaus, Rebekah and Marcel, which seemed weird to me. I also kinda felt like Genevieve was egging them on to kill her so the ancestors couldn't take her and she died a very similar death to Celeste.
Now Gia (short for Giavana) means "God is Gracious" Given her first encounter with Klaus, I'd say that's an alias Gen would pick for herself and seeing as she and Celeste were best buddies, there's a good chance she took a page from her playbook. Now when I first saw the casting call for Gia, Gen immedietly popped into my head, but that's just me and a feeling I have.